Forum update document for discussion

Seems fine where it is...

Yeah - I think it's a worthy thought to consider... every distinction, wheter it is by manufacturer (which creates VERY differently sized subs with lots of unused overlapping areas), or sensor-size (which is quite hard to do in terms of finding dividing lines which make sense and has not much when it comes to group-specific aspects) has its own flaws and blind spots. By reconsidering the gear section from a mere gear-point of view (as some stores tend to do), we might be able to find a really simple solution, able to provide a unique approach for an online forum.

Cameras
Lenses
Accessories & Drones
Lighting

I'm certainly forgetting about something here, but something like that would be very interesting in my opinion.

Hi!
“ We are not a gear based site; we are a photography site. We want to promote photography discussions across all genres”
“ This reinforces that we are NOT a gear forum”
Good luck. Really.

dprevived.com/t/lets-take-this-oportunity-to-stop-posting-images-in-camera-brand-forums/718/

Is there a timeline for this? How will the consolidation be handled for existing threads?

Except for the Adapted Lens forum on this site I only post images and only in non-gear specific forums. My guess is most people will want to keep gear forums. There are fewer images posted on the site in general and little discussion of images than on dpreview. I probably post 6-12 images online somewhere in a typical week. Few are posted here because there is little interacrion beyond Likes. I dont think that can be fixed by restructuring the site.

I'm online here daily there is potential to build a strong community.

You're going to do what you want to do anyway so just do it already. I don't want to see how they make sausage , I just want to eat.

I absolutely don't get why you'd think that. If I ever get that impression though, I'll be out of here in no time without looking back...

Very interesting that you've mentioned the Adapted lens sub as well - I guess it really is something where the gear aspect matters a lot, right? I still think it can be integrated (and maybe specified with Tags or something like that) relatively well into another, bigger sub. As it currently stands, most regulars of that sub never got here and certainly didn't stay, so it's very quiet. However I think there's potential to grow a small community over time.

I doubt there are fewer images posted here than on dpreview when the number of users are considered... I actually think it's the other way around. But, of course there's lots more traffic there in general. I also think most people will want to keep their brand-specific gear forums and while it's not my preferred way of doing things, that's fine by me.

I hope there can be some improvement in that aspect. And I think the most important thing is trying to create bridges between the different subs, both across brand divides, as well as across specialized and open topics.

I hope so as well. I'd love to have your input on the question I asked in the open talk section btw., if you're willing to share:
What are your biggest inspirations/motivation boosts?

And if you haven't given it a try yet, the most interesting way of getting and giving feedback in my humble opinion here at the moment is the C&C thread:
dprevived.com/t/wednesday-cc-no-theme-thread-796-revived-016-on-2023-07-19/4632/

It might not be everyone's preferred way and it can be quite busy, so it's impossible (at least for me) to comment on everything, but it adds a couple of interesting aspects, because it's not just about one image/one set of similar images.

Hi,

I am still using an APS-H camera, a Nikon F5 based Kodak 760c. With macro lenses on a copy stand, making good use of the easily swapped viewfinders. I think I may be the only one around here still using one. Kodak also made such based on Canon film bodies,.but I can't say as I've seen anyone posting that they are still in use.

So, from my PoV, probably not worth a category.

However, Canon did make a large number of APS-H sensor cameras. Since I don't ever look into the Canon gear forums (anywhere, not just here), I have zero idea how many are still being used and talked about.

I also still have a couple APS-C sensor cameras which have their dedicated uses. But I can't say when I have talked about such lately. Plenty of makes and models out there, though. Plenty of chatter regarding them.

Bottom line from me is you can probably skip the APS-H series.

I'm using one Full Frame and one Medium Format at this point for most of my shooting. Tons of Full Frame chatter out there, of course.

There are plenty of users of Medium Format as well. And the MF Forums, both here and on DP Review, cover it all. From the Nuts and Volts to the weekly photo threads. And everything in between. That's what I envision would come from a division of things along sensor type lines.

Stan

Hi,

I have two local stores.

One does the everything from a particular maker in a cabinet.

The other puts everything from all makers they carry together and section it by camera type: SLR, ML, Bridge, etc. However, the lenses are not with the bodies, but in their own section.

Except for Medium Format, there they have their own part of the shop, with everything in one place. And then separated from the rest by all the generic gear like bags and tripods and printers and paper.

That means, when I go in for things in FF and also MF, I have to hike from one end of the shop to the other.

I suppose that means there are as many ways of setting up a camera shop as their are shops.

Stan

Before Keeble and Shuchat in Palo Alto closed, they had 35mm and smaller cameras on the main floor, along with film, accessories and tripods. Darkroom stuff upstairs. MF and LF cameras across the street, along with studio lighting, wide carriage printers, scanning backs, and rentals.

There are lots of thoughts to unpack so here goes.

First I post in the Adapted Lens forum because there are a number of folks there who are interested in creative photography. For the last ten years I’ve spent most of my time in the Dpreview Black and White forum. It became and remains a very interactive community of photographers. Everyone shows work and gets feedback of some sort. Perhaps it is not always technical but some acknowledgment of the work. It is diminished now but still has a good vibe for participants. Something similar could happen here.

Second I gave up the grind of buying photo gear a few years ago. I have a couple of P&S cameras and a Sony A7ii which I use daily. What I don’t have are ANY Sony E system lenses. All my lenses are old manual focus and pre-digital. However I don’t post on Adapted Lens forum because I only used old lenses. It is about a sense of community.

Finally there is something completely irrelevant to consider. I’ve been online since 1980. In the early days the community of microcomputer users was very egalitarian because there were no limits on possible uses. That changed quickly as ‘Experts’ emerged. A similar thing has happened with digital photography.
My goal is to do photography in a way that pleases me. That means I must think, study, visualize, execute and analyze images for myself. I’m not opposed to C&C but these days an ‘Expert’ is likely to be the person who saw the most YouTube videos about conventional technique. Creative photography requires creative thinking.

The C&C effort here on DPRev that SimpleJoy is referring to is definitely not about experts - it's strictly a peer-to-peer discussion, a back-and-forth exchange of ideas about the group of wildly different photos that members of the group posted in a particular week. It is an old fossil of a thread with a fifteen year history in a secluded corner of DPR. The photos on any given week range from artistic creations to architecture, from exotic travel to the family dog. Its success for all these years has been the very thing you noted above: a sense of community, and the freedom to exchange ideas that sense of community engenders.

A few points about my own use of photogtraphic fora, possibly not much use for planning:

I rather enjoy the digressions and references sprinkled throughout themes. so too rigid theme control should be avoided.

I regularly browse sites like APUG, RF, MF, LUF as well as nikon gear revival, collection des apparailles.fr and digital camera club.de and enjoy going back to look at posts on photo.net where for instance an Indian gentleman has consistently informative pictures and text from his home town whiole experimenting with developers and unfashionable optics ;

My use of those fora is not to reinforce my already too untamed tendencies to experiment with veteran equipment, but to learn more about the development of photographiic technology. Although i must admit that a certain exhibitionistic satisfaction can follow when I read and on a rare occasion write about equipment that I like to use.

My own snaps are for private enjoyment, hence galleries are unused to post, but as with photo mags , one may be inspired by looking at some subject matter. Examples of lens performance suffer from too limited size and people do not usually post enlarged details.

A useful feature for efficient browsing would be to indicate at the theme headline the date of the most recent post rather than when entering that cathegory. Also, excessive use of quotes makes it more difficult to read through a theme (forthose who do not suffer from alzheimer).

p.

Lots of reading and ideas to absorb! It sounds lkie a great plan. What I feel might be missing, since this concept is about the elements of photography as opposed to all the gear talk and arguments is some of the following categories or topic that should (I.M.H.O.) be isolated from the mix but is applicable to all:

The dynamics of photographic lighting; Folks, on many online forums, are l always talking about lighting in terms of gear- wht to use, waht to buy, etc. If they understand the basic principles, these matters would not be all that mysterious or difficult. Concepts about angle of incidesse, reflectivity, diffusion, directing of light, qualityof light, color temperature (whitebalance) creating dimentinality wit right. SEEING and recognizing light and lots more! Basicalyl, in traditional photogahy you are rendering a 3-dimensional subject on a 2-dimensional screen or sheet of paper. The illusion of dimension is created by the usage of LIGHT. I am not talking about deep dives into physics or space-age technology- just practical basics and artistic usage. Whether one uses flash, natural light, LED, tungsten, existing light, or candles- all the basics still apply.

Photo-Electronics. I've counted hundreds of online inquiries about all the gadgetsm triggers, snf newfnagled devised that folks are trying to get to operat properly They sped more time attempting to get so of this stuff to work than actually "taking pictures"! Again, I am not proposing a section on electronic engineering but an easy-to-understand discussion about HOW all this stuff works and why all these gadgets are not always compatible with all the others. Another section or a sub-section dedicated to electron flas dispel all the mythology about flas usage. So many fokls have Speedligh and haven't the slightest idea of how to take full advantage of them. The same problem, as I see it applies to modifiers and flash accessories. Again, not brand-based but the theories that pertain to any knid of light modifications. Whether you purchase a costly modifier or make one out of cardboard and aluminum foil- the same principles apply.

Gearheads? My notion is that separating SOME photograhers, good, bad, create, artistic, or not, forom they hear anxiety, dedication or lust, is like trying to cleave a dimond with a razor blade, undoing some things that were joined with g Gorilla Glue or unceremoniously ripping of a bandaid or scab of a healg wound! PAINFUL! Perhaps on certain theoretical discussions or" how-to threads" a certain degree of "applicable equipmt" data can be included but no kind of brand vs. brand arguments.

Professionalism? What about professionals and folks aspiring to various full or part-time commercial endeavors? Portraiture, commercial and industrial photography, glamour/s fashion.event coverage, socai photography such as weddings and family occasions, photojournalism, business management, legalities, and business and promotional planning, and copyright and licensing issues. Even dedicated amateurs can learn valuable tips and techniques from professionals.

As a professional photographer, I would be pleased to contribute to a forum that is well-organized and moderated. I now limit my participation to the few existg sites I visit and post on. I will never become a so-called Veteren Member because those distinctions are based on quantity not quality. This is not an EGO thing! It's just that one comes to realize that it is a waste of time and effort when there is too much chaos and ongoing childish behavior, absolutely no decorum, and a ton of seriously invalid information.

Good moderation is required. Good moderation is not draconian or dictatorial or should be considered censorship. Good clean debate is healthy and informative. Folks can disagree and still remain cordial and ethical. Nasty and unnecesserally combative posts should removed and the continual pervarof that knid of nonsense should be banned. There is nothing undemocratic about that! We don't need
parliamentary or courtroom-like procedures or heavy policing- just good manners!

Just my suggestions! Thanks for your consideration😁!

Hi,

Across the street? I thought going from the front of a bowling alley shaped store to the back was a walk. Now I see that's not a walk at all. :P

We used to have an art store where it was on three floors. And no elevator. My wife's favorite store. It wasn't far from one of the camera shops. So we'd make a Saturday morning out of going to first one then the other. That art store is no more.

Stan

Thanks for your reply. One other thing I should have asked in the first go round. Can individual threads be migrated to a target forum? Up to now I have followed the historical case for the Sunday Cat! thread and kept it in the same forum as the original. With compression of the structure continuity will be lost, so the individual threads may need to go somewhere else, although there is no clear target forum at this point.