Forum update document for discussion

I am a huge proponent of mobile phones. But, the more we slice the pie the less likely we will have great discussions about terrific images and techniques across the spectrum of image creation possibilities.

After reading Bill’s post above, I really think that Bill’s comments above are much more akin to my thinking that I gave a stab at back on page 1.

Did you NOT read the last paragraph in my post- the part about " these are just suggestions"- not demands or complaints? So, you just, in essence, told me to shut up because you disagree with my concepts- only YOUR attitude toward moderation is valid! Well, at least you said "please"!

This is exactly what I dislike about all these Internet forums. Folks are so busy bickering, bitching, and insulting one and othere that there is no time or space left for substance. I feel, at the end of the day, that the negative issues on forums have little to do withe "gearheads" It has to do with folks who can't debate any ideas without lashing out, trolling, and belligerent behavior. It does not take that many unhappy folks to spoil an entire site.

The owner and founders of this site will, in the end, do exactly what they want and feel is the way the should present and run this forum and whatever and however they want to label it as per THEIR vision! Hopefully, they, only YOUR vision of what wahthe place shod look lie! are doing their own marketing research and do not need my input. Besides," too many cooks spoil the broth"!

Since I have nothing to gain or lose as to my participation here and do no enjoy working in a hostile or chaotic atmosphere, I will not continue posting here at the present time. If the management want to take me up on my previous offer to write the odd article, the can reach me by Email once the have this organized to the satisfaction.
I wish y'all the best of luck and success! Ed

edshapiro@symptico.ca

Ed,

I agree in principle with everything you say.

And I get that you find the constant back and forth bickering to be disheartening and exhausting. Discourse is almost impossible anymore despite the fact that the greatest opportunity for discourse, in history is available. The most strident, most aggressive people, with anonymity assured seem to prevail.

Don't go away. Don't get yourself bogged down here. But stay tuned in. You have a lot of knowledge, experience and wisdom to contribute.

Rich

Contrary to what a few others are saying, I think that is a bad idea. As a Fuji X user, I would have to use a forum with other APS c and H users. There are currently C cameras from Canon, Fuji, Nikon and Sony, no H camera having been made on 20 years. The problems someone encounters with one of these brands are often very brand specific and users of other brands won't be much of a help other than saying 'just change to my brand' so fanboyism won't disappear. It is also not a good idea for users who have made the conscious decision to use for instance a FF and a aps-c Nikon.
My guess is that if you do this, there will be very little traffic in the gear forums and as a consequence users also leaving the forum altogether.

I’m just going to add this here as food for thought. A post that was “boosted” to my Mastodon feed:

Your culture is shaped more by the toxic behavior you tolerate than by the healthy behavior you espouse.

/#leadership

ᔥ Doc Norton (@DocOnDev@mstdn.social)

I admire and appreciate the effort expended and the results you have produced in creating this web site!,, However, while I think reorganization may be useful it is not the answer to DPR ... The real problem of these sites is to generate and maintain the conversation .... DPR use to do this by discussing the new products that were introduced almost daily at the start of digital. ...So it evolved into a gear discussion forum .. with some discussion of photography as new features were introduced that made taking pictures more interesting and simpler. ... individual photographs do not produce discussion as few want to discuss the art and AI will soon increase those billions of photos that are uploaded daily ... and they will be better as they will adhere to all the compositional rules and work from the products of our most creative artistic minds .... Photography is already moving to vlog and other video performance photography .. There will always be photographers, some still use the 8X10 view camera and earlier photographic techniques, but where is the conversation? ... You need to find a topic and a way to create those conversations to maintain an active forum -- threaded views tend to lead to tribal sub forums (like C&C and the DPR 4/3rds threads) ... interesting, useful but not a real answer for a forum as a whole ...

And, here I am the 80++ entry in this conversation that I have rarely listened to after the first dozen statements .. is this really a conversation?? .... and am I lost in the chatter? ..... well ....

WhyNot

I‘m honestly kinda speechless after that response… Nobody has insulted you here (at least in this thread, or am I missing something?) and while I feel like it wasn‘t intended as a willful distraction - but rather because of good intentions on your part - you‘ve distracted from the topic at hand, which has been and still is the restructure of the categories, not the moderation policies.

I get your frustration (in part), I‘ve mentioned similar things in threads which featured the topic, I‘ve bemoaned the loss of some users whom I perceived as reasonable people, who were quite active here but left due to heated debates with @bobn2 about the moderation policies or lack thereof. I‘m not sure myself this is the right approach, but I find the reasoning convincing enough and understand the underlying thoughts, so I‘m willing to give it a chance. They‘ve made it clear that the "no moderation" (at least in the sense of what dpreview does) aspect is a core feature of this site.

I‘ve tried (and will continue doing so) to add the very thing you claim there‘s a lack of here: substance, not in terms of technical discussions about gear (which aren‘t my strong suite) but showing images, explaining and discussing concepts, talking about different approaches, techniques, giving feedback to others and talking about their unique views and interpretations which I find highly interesting. I‘ve created a couple of topics which interest me personally and at least try to see if I can get a worthwhile discussion going without resorting to clickbait headlines.

If you haven‘t tried to do it already, I‘d suggest you do that before you claim you‘re not appreciated…

It seems like some others think you can contribute meaningful things here so I hope you stay and do that, regardless of some distractions.

I remain cautiously optimistic.

I‘m glad you are able to! It took me a while to get there as well, but I think it‘s worth it to try and make this site into something special and different!

I guess I would have to ask why is B&W eliminated as a genre?

I continue to support compression of sub forums where feasible and nurturing of photo-centric type discussions, whichever route you take to try and get there. Your two options are both reasonable efforts. Have you looked at potential post counts in either model after moves are made? Not sure if you have built in ways to do this easily but it could be helpful to you in decision making.

My own personal preference, which I understand does not matter at all, would be to reduce the gear sections as drastically as is practical while still offering a place to discuss, in the least: cameras, lenses, and accessories. ( I may be in the minority, as I have no particular attachment to brand and if my brand vanished tomorrow I'd buy something else and keep on taking pictures.) Genre sections could likewise be compressed. Anything that is compressed can be re-expanded later in the same or some new way, based on feedback and usage data. But you wouldn't have as many empty storefronts on Main Street.

A few nits: In the equipment section version1 the section brand names need to be standardized to something like "cameras and lenses" rather than some being cameras, some being equipment, some being cameras and lenses, etc. In v1 there are should probably be a section for lenses that don't fit under the brand sections, or all the lenses could be in their own section. If v1 is chosen, it needs a bit of housekeeping.

Question (this may have been answered and I missed it) - would all the photo sharing threads be housed under photo discussions? Or just the non brand specific ones? Wondering how all that will sort out...

True, but is it necessary to make the gear forums unattractive? I'm okay with getting them a bit smaller and lower, but basing them on sensor size is not good. It will lead to more fanboyism, not less. It will put more emphasis on an aspect of cameras that is less important than sometimes thought
And if this site really gets into good gear review, those interested may be gone.

Anyway, no-one has to follow a forum that does not interest him/her. I don't care about birds, so I don't go there

a) I agree. Phone A R E full fledge cameras

b) I shoot Z system, I post in Z talk, I read Z talk > it's a nikon - that's ok<

c) If there is a lens I'm interested to, it's in the Z talk

for the Forum I use the All Thread view so I see the universe.

( remove Z talk and I'm lost - non-interested in Canon, Fuji, or OM for instance )