• Members 598 posts
    March 13, 2024, 3:56 a.m.

    What kind of Marxist crap is that?! 😁

    More seriously, yes, economics dominates both politics and religion in the modern world. However, most, if not all, socio/economic/political models will work, and work well, if we assume that people are good. The question is, which model works the best for how people really are? I don't have an answer to that question, and neither does anyone else. That said, we can definitely say that some paradigms have been more successful than others. Still, we can't necessarily attribute the more successful paradigms to the model, as the populations are different.

    Let's take guns, for example. Australia had a bad day with them back in the 90's, and decided that was enough, and guns became way, way, way more restricted. The US has bad days with guns pretty much daily, and there's no way that Americans will restrict guns. Different population with a different mindset.

    In any case, for a democratic capitalistic society to work well, at the very least, we would need people to be educated far, far, far more than they are in the US (and, I dare say, anywhere on Earth). But, I think we can all agree that most of us in this thread (save Bob, obviously) are pretty well educated, so, obviously, education is not enough. One has to also be willing to sacrifice at least some personal gain in the interests of a better society (and people's idea of what and how much to sacrifice varies wildly, independent of intelligence or education), and one has to also be willing to tolerate difference (which, again, varies wildly from person to person and the nature of the difference).

    So, no, Marxism will never work as well as theory on a large scale. Same with capitalism. Same with socialism. There are simply too many variables that muddy the waters. But no matter what the system is, people can sacrifice a bit more than they do for the common good, and people can be more tolerant of others. If we instead focused on that, things would improve, but there will never be a utopia or anything even remotely close. If only because:

    "Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world. But I believe that, as a species, human beings define their reality through suffering and misery. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from. Which is why the Matrix was redesigned to this: the peak of your civilization." - Agent Smith

    The bottom line is that humanity sucks. Always has, and always will. Sometimes humanity sucks more, sometimes it sucks less. But the problem is with the people -- everyone already thinks they are good people (does anyone actually believe that Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc., etc., etc. thought that they were anything less than good people trying to make the world a better place?). Of course, some people, like me, realize they are shit, and, on occasion, try to do something good to balance out the rest, and at least come out closer to neutral. And, also of course, there are some evil people who full on know they are evil and some good people who just do what they do, but I think they're a small minority. Most evil/bad people think they're every bit as good, if not more so, than good people.

    So, how do we get people to be more good? No freakin' clue. I can't even seem to make myself more good. I mean, some things I would have taken as a given, such as when a cop executes someone that they are held accountable 100% of the time instead of what actually happens. If people in higher positions, either politically or economically are not held more accountable, as opposed to less accountable, as things are, then, no, things are not going to get better. But how do you hold people accountable? You need good people to do that. And all too often, good people in a position to do so (or, at the very least, less bad people) commit "suicide", "fall" out of buildings, etc., etc., etc..

  • Members 598 posts
    March 13, 2024, 6:03 a.m.

    Nope! Not a fan of silly conspiracies when so much real deal bad stuff is going on. And, of course, I wasn't talking about Epstein, either, since he was neither good nor did he commit suicide -- there's your Clinton conspiracy theory. Might have even been a bipartisan mission with Trump. See? Republicans and Democrats can work together, after all! 😁

  • Members 166 posts
    March 13, 2024, 7:16 a.m.

    That's perhaps the best single sentence summary of this thread that can be constructed.

    A stranger in a different photography forum (guess which one?) recommended a book to me a couple of years ago, one that might interest you and a few of the other posters here: The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion. Even if you don't read the book, just checking the reviews from readers on Amazon is educational. You could concentrate on the one star reviews (they're 1% of the total). You'll see that those who hated the book insist that the author is alternately a leftist, a rightist, a pollyanna, a demon, or just an idiot. Ironically, such highly varied extreme reactions to the same input go a long way toward supporting the validity of the author's ideas and that of your one sentence summary. But you'd have to read the book for more details.

  • March 13, 2024, 7:30 a.m.

    Interesting point of view. Here's a little experiment for you. Your man has a 'friend', goes by the name of 'Stormy'. He affectionately calls her 'Horseface', being such a polite and witty kind of chap. Anyhow, she has a large back catalogue of work, and I'm sure you can find a really good test image within that corpus. Find the best example of her doing what she's most famous for (that is, apart from having been friendly with your man). Try submitting a paper with that image used as an illustrative example. I would suggest that it's quite likely that the editors will ask you to substitute that image, on the basis that some readers will find it offensive. You of course will tell them that they can only reject an image on a scientific basis.

  • Members 86 posts
    March 13, 2024, 10:44 a.m.

    Kinda makes me wonder why we don't apply this knowledge to photography as well, specifically viewing images. Instead we seem to try so hard to link photographs to facts, figures, and on photo forums to exact physics and the way a camera works. We devise a system to decide which camera is best that uses an "equivalent photo" and so cancels the actual point of photography from the equation. Itself a broad assumption specifically designed to cancel out the content that is impossible to actually create. I often see people quoting equivalent apertures to a couple of decimal places even when they know that the quoted focal lengths on lenses and exif are approximate only. Also saw someone reply when asked if they thought a photo was correctly exposed that they would have to see the exif data first, they need to compare the numbers...

    To create an equivalent iconic photo to the OP you would need a world conflict to be at an end, not a discussion of FOV. In fact a lot of these iconic photos work so well because the facts are obscured, so it leaves room for our memory and bias to fill that space which is the way photos take on meaning to us. The actual settings used are not what makes the photo great, it's what we want it to represent. The real problem is when we try to obscure the truth and promote perception and the prejudice that follows.

    As indicated in the quote above, it's surprising just how much people want their perceptions to be fact, and how hard they will fight to maintain this perceived "freedom" (FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH - to all the Stalinists...) especially when it is driven by outrage. It's also surprising just how easy it is to manipulate a population if you provide that outrage alongside limiting their choices and controlling the information they receive.

    Wealth, and power, in the developed nations is sustained by over-consumption, and nothing produces obscene wealth like the over consumption of fossil fuels. And there's nothing like education and democracy to put the brakes on that. Is it any wonder that those who currently hold that wealth and power are trying to undermine democracy and cement our dependence on what creates their wealth and power?

    I was impressed though at how Trump stood up to and in the way of the government and so was protecting the population in the stolen documents case, for they are sure to come after you next... But also a little surprised at the endemic problem you seem to have with people stealing classified documents. Or perhaps it was the other way round, he wanted the people to stand between the government and himself.

    I like to think the photo was a moment of joy, I like to believe it's true. But I do understand that the truth of the moment was far more human.

  • March 13, 2024, 12:12 p.m.

    That's a problem of definition. What the questioner probably thought he was asking was 'does the photo have a good tonality'. What the respondent thought he meant was 'is the photo correctly exposed'. To find that out, in terms of the singular state of correct exposure, he surely would have to look at the exif data.

    So that's what he was doing, was it? And yes, I'm sure that if any normal American citizen takes home a load of highly classified documents, fails to return them when asked politely, shows those documents to people without security clearance, fails to comply with a subpoena to return them whilst misleading his lawyer causing him to make a false statement to the FBI, directs his staff to move documents in order to impede the investigation, then orders them to destroy evidence of that action, then I'm sure that they will indeed come ofter them. Well, probably not, if it was a normal citizen the Feds would break down the doors after the first failure to return them.

  • March 13, 2024, 12:15 p.m.

    OK, so you're open to them objecting on other grounds, you just don't agree with them on which 'other grounds' they chose to object. As I said, nothing to see here. Just a disagreement between yourself and the editors over what grounds they should be using. But they have every right to choose any grounds that they wish. That's how it works.

    Not sure what the 'it' refers to here.

  • March 13, 2024, 1:35 p.m.

    There's a key difference. Biden returned them at stage one, when asked nicely and hence didn't go through all the rest.

    Here's the problem with your narrative. You say Biden is insane. Anyone who watched the SOTU address, where he handled heckling effectively and with good humour, can see that he is cogent and alert. So, you're asking people to disbelieve the evidence of their own eyes to buy into your narrative. You'll probably turn to Special Counsel Hur's statement that he was too senile to remember the date of his son's death, when the transcript of Biden's testimony shows that when asked the date he said 'Beau's death. Oh God. It was May 30th'. Hur claimed not to remember that part of the transcript until it was read to him, with the page and paragraph number. On the other hand, Hur also said "unlike the evidence involving Mr Biden, the allegations set forth in the indictment against Mr Trump, if proven would present serious aggravating facts, most notably after being given chances to return classified documents and avoid prosecution, Mr Trump allegedly did the opposite. According to the indictment he not only refused to return the documents for many months but he also obstructed justice by enlisting others to destroy evidence and then to lie about it."

    So again, in creating an equivalence between the two you're asking people to ignore the evidence. Had Trump not made himself liable to counts 32-38, he would not have been charged with 1-31 for a simple reason. The law requires that the retention be wilful. That's hard to prove, unless the defendant does things like retaining them even after being asked to return them, lies and causes other to lie, engages in conspiracy to obstruct justice and the rest. That provides pretty good evidence that the retention is wilful. That wasn't available in Biden's case, because when asked he just returned them.

    So, as I said before, the problem with your narrative is that it just doesn't stand up to even the slightest scrutiny for anyone who can assess evidence for themselves.
    Am I saying that Biden is the best possible presidential candidate for the US? No. But he appears to be one of only two who have any chance of winning - and if faced with that choice, I know which way I'd go. Your views are clearly different - but as I said before, descending to unsubstantiated insult, like calling him insane or saying that he cannot read any more (ironic, when the other guy seems to have real literacy issues - just watch him mangle everything trying to read from a teleprompter), etc, is not likely to convince anyone capable of thinking for themselves.

  • March 13, 2024, 1:38 p.m.

    Yes, it is. These journals are not state operations. They are owned by joint stock companies in a capitalist system. That is their right, whether or not you agree with it.

  • Members 878 posts
  • March 13, 2024, 3:24 p.m.

    'Way out of line' is over-egging it. Let's say companies independent of the state. The precise legal standing does vary, but I think that you'll find that when it comes down to it many are technically joint-stock companies, even if owned and identified with another organisation. Still, that's actually irrelevant. Whatever their legal basis they are not governmental organisations and have the right to pursue any editorial policy they choose, so long as it doesn't infringe the law. The fact that they may lose your respect by doing so is neither here nor there. If they are membership organisations, and you are a member, you have every right to pursue your preferences at through the available channels that members have. That's the simple case of it. They have no obligation to keep to your ideas on what is a correct editorial policy. There was such a case (of a faction of the membership trying to stop a charitable organisation being too 'woke') here in the UK. The outcome was that though the anti-woke people insisted that they were speaking for 'everyone', that turned out not to be the case.

    From my own point of view, the deprecation of Lena is a bit silly, because the offence depends on knowledge of the back story, which isn't apparent on viewing the image - so whatever negative connotation there maybe in the back story, it isn't in the image.

    That also was my view with the image in your OP, but no longer. They say every image tells a story, and now I've spent some time looking at the image, and see the obvious distress in the woman's pose - the rigidity and angularity of her body does not give the impression of someone being kissed joyfully by a loved one, were it my choice whether or not to use the image I would not do so. But it isn't my choice, and I'd understand others choosing either way. What I wouldn't be inclined to do is get involved in performative outrage about the particular choice someone else made.

  • Members 204 posts
    March 13, 2024, 3:30 p.m.

    Marxism isn't in itself a solution, at least not for me. I think of Marxism as an analytical tool. I believe in democracy and free enterprise, in part because I believe in humanity. I also firmly believe that capitalism is inimical to democracy and free enterprise.

    Capitalism is an economic system that promotes the accumulation of capital, and as practiced since the Reagan presidency (both by Republicans and Democrats) it has lead to the greatest accumulation of capital in the fewest hands in history. Is that a good thing? Some think so, but Marxism tells me that the dystopian consequences of relegating most of humanity to impoverishment will lead to the eventual replacement of capitalism. The success of an economic system will inevitably corrupt it and lead to its replacement.

    As a thought experiment, consider how a world without any labor would look. Under capitalism as it is being practiced in the United States a few people would reap all the benefits of that and everyone else would become reliant on the goodwill and generosity of a small ruling class. Marxism tells me that will not work, and people will struggle (and ultimately succeed) in replacing that arrangement with another one – socialism. With automation moving forward at every level in the modern world, this thought experiment is going to become a reality.

    Socialism is an economic system that promotes society. For example, under capitalism healthcare is all about profits, and that often comes at the expense of the optimal health of individuals; a socialist healthcare system is all about the overall health of society, and that is inherently better for the health of individuals. Bringing this discussion back to this forum for a moment – not unlike capitalism, socialism has the potential to promote personal enrichment, we can spend more time pursuing photography and other personally fulfilling activities if we choose to (and if social norms allow that, and if they don't allow the kind of photography I engage in then I will loudly protest that). The greatest camera is of little use to most people if it is unaffordable, and if it is too unaffordable to too many then no company will remain in the business of making that camera. Whatever activity you want to engage in will rely on a constituency, but at least that's a viable mechanism whereas a profit driven mechanism that is controlled by maximizing the accumulation of capital is capricious and I believe will eventually fail to deliver what is wanted by many constituencies (like serious photographers).

    Is socialism the end of history? I doubt it. I expect individualism, accompanied by anarchism is in the very distant future. As you said (in not so many words), for humanity to work people will have to think (i.e., be educated) differently. Education as well as technology are tools, and if the only tools you have are capitalist purposed, then you have a capitalist system; likewise socialism, and ultimately individualism will need tools to be implemented. I know a lot of people are saying that individualism and anarchism are too utopian to ever be realized, but look at the progress of women and minorities in the western world over the last couple of hundred years and how people who were once widely considered unfit to govern even their own affairs are now part of the polity.

    Capitalism wasn't much more than an idea five hundred years ago, same as socialism is today. History takes time, multiple lifetimes are just small increments of the timelines I'm looking at here.