• Members 1642 posts
    July 15, 2023, 5:48 a.m.

    Thanks Jim for an interesting and thought proving read.

    One of the joys of photography is the happy surprise. That last minute shot that might work, and which I make without much conviction. The best received picture form a recent set I made was one such shot. On the other hand, I grew tired of performing arts photography when I came to the conclusion that I had arrived at the point of being able to get the shot that "worked", without too much effort. I had the angles and timing all mapped out in advance.

    Some of my best performing arts photography was made in desperate situations. A modern dance production comes to mind, where the stage lighting was in the form of a 60 Watt light bulb carried by the dancers. Every ounce, and more of my experience was needed to get the results that I had to produce for the press release. Those pictures had much more "soul" than usual.

    I do a lot of architectural photography now. I plan and research beforehand. I want to be there when the important exteriors are not in deep shadow, of have cars and other clutter spoiling the shot. For the interiors, I try to list the interesting things inside, which I might want to photograph; that unusual pulpit or column capital. Can I use a tripod, or will it be a compromise with my monopod method, or even high ISO hand holding. I want the right gear in my camera bag.

    For an architectural shoot there are several "standard" shots I want, and which are needed to tell the story. I will always do a down the aisle square on shot, and a bit of camera movement backwards and forwards is all I need. I will do a horizontal and vertical shot as it is not always certain which is the better shot. Once I have got the pre-planned or previsualised shots out of the way, I usually spend some time experimenting on shots that "might work"

    I use technical previsualization to decide if I need to do a HDR set, when the lighting range is way beyond my sensors capability. I know I need to use at least 1/125 to freeze a ballet dancer in motion. I enjoy working with shift lenses, and I have a good Idea of how they alter the image if I use diagonal shift rather than the usual vertical shift. I know the problems that my 24PC will create if I am too close to the subject and use vertical shift.

    The great thing about digital is that we can take one or one thousand frames at the same cost. Experimenting costs nothing but time. Even when I shot film, I shot far more than an inexperienced photographer would shoot as for a professional performing arts shoot, film was a minor cost, compared to a session failure.

    Yes, looking at the contact prints of the "greats" like Bresson and André Kertész is illuminating. We cut through a lot of art critisism bullshit, to discover that the decisive moment was one frame amongst 35 near misses or outright failures. We discover Bresson cropped the hell out of some frames to produce an iconic shot. The guy jumping over a puddle comes to mind.

    DSC_8834 2.jpg

    I came to know that this sort of shot was easy and predictable when sombody else was doing a solo.

    DSC_1368 1.jpg

    A happy accident. I saw this curious bus country shelter as I was passing by and stopped the car to take a shot.

    DSC_1428_HDR 1.jpg
    A last minute, might work" shot

    DSC_8834 2.jpg

    JPG, 1.2 MB, uploaded by NCV on July 15, 2023.

    DSC_1428_HDR 1.jpg

    JPG, 883.3 KB, uploaded by NCV on July 15, 2023.

    DSC_1368 1.jpg

    JPG, 1.5 MB, uploaded by NCV on July 15, 2023.

  • July 15, 2023, 7 a.m.

    The pixel size recommendation is a bit lame, IMO, and mainly based on memory requirements. Display size is the thing, and my feeling is that many photographers would have a view when they take a shot of the kind of size they think it should be displayed. Modern web media tends to mean that many people taking photos presuppose (pre-visualise) that the shot will be viewed on a phone, and since it's composed on a phone screen that works quite well. However, if we seek to cater for specialist photographers, then there is the possibility that they will intend a photo to be viewed larger than a phone screen.
    One of my ambitions for the site is that our gallery tools will be purposed for photographers, and will be specced to allow high resolution display on large screens or projectors - so that really means up to 4k at least, because many people have 4k monitors also, and would include high quality rescaling to suit actual display size.

  • Foundation 1510 posts
    July 15, 2023, 8:17 a.m.

    If I understand you correctly, this is a technical matter that reflects that printing is different from display on a screen. I was referring to changes in composition.

    David

  • Members 1416 posts
    July 15, 2023, 10:36 a.m.

    Somewhat unfair. Jim made the original post in a C&C thread where arriving at things by chance v control of the process was being discussed. AAs previsualization isn't nearly as critical today as it was when AA. wrote. In those days you got just one chance at developing a negative and then it had to be turned into a print. You needed to be able to control the taking of the shot, the processing of the negative and the production of the print, with small margins of error and no opportunity to go and do the process again. You needed to know what you wanted your final image to look like and then control each of the three stages to ensure you got that final print. It was of critical importance for example for wedding photographers if they wanted details in the blacks of suits or didn't want to burn out highlights of wedding dresses. Today you just move a slider. Get it wrong then and you were sacked.
    Never the less, previsualization is still regarded in advanced photo circles as a skill of someone in control of their craft.
    Great images of course can be made without previsualization, then and now. The trick is being able to repeat it.

  • Removed user
    July 15, 2023, 2:59 p.m.

    Thank you - interesting about re-sampling to suit the User's actual display size. So my native 2268px wide posted image could get "high quality" re-sampling up to 8K's 7680px wide ...

    oh, oh, 16K is here:

    gizmodo.com/110-inch-16k-big-screen-tv-china-chinese-television-ai-1850474588

    And interesting too that "display-referred" or "output-referred" is less meaningful than it used to be with the "final form" being unknown.

  • Removed user
    July 15, 2023, 3:41 p.m.

    I don't print either, but my understanding is that an image intended for "the print" to be viewed under certain lighting is quite different to an image intended to be viewed on a monitor under different lighting.

    [edit]Which begs the question - what output device are your "final versions" intended for?[/edit]

    No doubt Jim can tell us much more about that ...

  • Members 1737 posts
    July 15, 2023, 3:53 p.m.

    I don't know about "quite different", but different, for sure. A few of the factors:

    Illuminant metameric error.
    Surround.
    Gamut -- an additive color gamut is quite different from a subtractive color one.
    Perceptual differences -- humans react differently to sources perceived as self-luminous than to sources perceived as simply reflective.
    Absolute illumination level.

  • July 15, 2023, 7:15 p.m.

    The 'final form' has always been unknown. If you make a print, you choose the size and paper surface, in general you don't choose the lighting, the viewing distance and position. All these output forms depend somewhat on the abstraction of the 'standard observer'.

  • Members 861 posts
    July 15, 2023, 8:12 p.m.

    "Laughs in 10 million photos taken every single day in automatic mode."

  • July 15, 2023, 8:28 p.m.

    I'm not sure I quite understand that, but plenty of great photos have been taken in automatic mode.

  • Removed user
    July 15, 2023, 8:31 p.m.

    So not less meaningful than it used to be ...

    I'm beginning to feel like DonaldB must feel ...

  • July 15, 2023, 8:33 p.m.

    I think the best advice in all these things is not to dig deeper than you feel comfortable with. Perception is tricky.

  • Foundation 1510 posts
    July 15, 2023, 8:54 p.m.

    Well, I freely admit that I do not have any means of calibrating my monitors scientifically, so it is quite possible that those who view the photos I have posted here in the Canon pictures threads will see them entirely differently from how I see them, though nobody has complained -- yet -- and most of the other photos here look fine to me on my screens.

    David

  • Removed user
    July 15, 2023, 8:57 p.m.

    Indeed it would to best not to pass an opinion on this site without copious research and credible references for fear of being nailed by the Team cognoscentum.

    The Last Word is youirs ...

  • July 15, 2023, 9:10 p.m.

    In what way would you be 'nailed'? Are you allergic to conversation?

    I'm genuinely perplexed by your attitude.

  • Members 2310 posts
    July 15, 2023, 9:53 p.m.

    might be off topic but here goes. a few years ago now i did an experiment and compared a 10meg imaging resourse image from the olympus xz1
    an the nikon d810 36 meg displayed them on my then 1920 1080 monitor and and took a 1:1 macro shot of the screen to compare detail.
    the xz1 was the clear winner showing detail.

  • Members 861 posts
    July 16, 2023, 12:05 a.m.

    If it was so easy all those photos wouldn't be taken in auto mode. A big part of the digital revolution was you no longer needed the technical know how.

    Automatic mode is a sign of less than amateur. I'm sure plenty of great photos were taken that way, that's kinda the point of the mode - erase all need for understanding anything technical and take a decent photo. The techs gotten so good it's almost surpassed being able to be a total moron or a moneky and you can still take a good, award winning photo....and 30 years from now people will be wondering where all the photography jobs have gone.

  • Removed user
    July 16, 2023, 12:26 a.m.

    I'm impressed by the macro shot method and you are demonstrably good at that type of shot.

    Another way which is easier for me is to use a Viewer like FastStone that can zoom in without smoothing e.g. one pixel becomes 2x2pixels, 3x3, 4x4, 5x5, etc.