Concerning this post:
dprevived.com/t/a-critique-suggestion/6521/
All well and good, especially as the membership here is relatively small. However, it would be great if when someone uploaded or linked to a photo, there were options that one could tick, such as "PLEASE DO NOT EDIT" and "PLEASE DO NOT CRITIQUE" that were listed directly below each photo in the post.
After threaded view is completed, that is. 😉
i was a judge at a local photography club the other night for end of year best of images awards, and can tell you GB that "no CC" logic has massively degraded the quality of images over the last 10 years. even A grade images were crap. bring back open honest CC if anyone wants to become a better photographer. because the nanny approach has not worked.
Totally true!!! 👍👍😎
But many people can't handle honest Constructive Criticism and get their knickers in a twist when their opinion of their "master piece" is not the same as other people's.
They struggle to cope with the fact that images are interpreted and seen differently by people.
Maybe some more buttons, like "PLEASE DO NOT COMMENT" or "JUST LOOK AND BE QUIET"? Or even "NOTHING TO SEE HERE, MOVE ALONG"?
I can understand non-editing policy, but restricting comments to just positive ones (be this restriction forced by image author or by general policy) is IMO not the the best course of action.
Sure critique should be constructive and it has to presented in polite way; constructive means that possible problems should be analyzed and polite means that commenter should not vilify image author decisions and not impose his own vision. Best way is to discuss different options, this is helpful to the original author too.
It really doesn't matter anymore.
Clearly some people can't cope with negative feedback and that is fine.
People are still free to hotlink (use publicly viewable image urls) to images here and then post CC elsewhere which actually gives them more freedom to say what they mean.
I'm happy to go down that path.
Anyone who posts an image ought to welcome C&C. I don't see any point in posting images otherwise. C&C should always be constructive, even when the image is poor. We learn from the C&C we receive. If the C&C isn't constructive, we learn something about the person who made the C&C. "Constructive" doesn't mean praise has to be given. C&C needs to be honest to be of value.
But. And it's a big "But."
While everyone may have an opinion, all opinions aren't of equal value. All too often the opinions can give away a lack of knowledge that is more revealing than the problems with the image being discussed. Looking at images (I deliberately used the word "images" rather than "photos") is a skill that requires experience. The more you build up your experience, the better your critiquing becomes. It isn't just the particular image that is benefitting, the person doing the critiquing, should be reflecting and building on their own experience as they look critically at other images. C&C hones your own appreciation and pleasure in photography. After all, aren't the images the point of why we take photos? Photographers can learn a lot from some serious study of art. Paintings are images as well and there's a thousand or so years of people discussing painting that are worth a bit of a look.
It's sad when C&C breaks down into "I have my opinion you have yours." It's a sign that someone isn't building on group experience and has stays imprisoned in their own head.
A suggestion. There's already a lot of valuable stuff on the subject at Dprevived. Go to the Web page for this site
www.the-photo.org/
Go down to the Articles to Read. If it looks useful, read them. I think we can all be better at C&C. We will enjoy our photography all the more.
Ticking a "like" box is a critique. We can do better. It's what might set the site apart from others.
A PS. If you can find good stuff to add to those in the Articles to Read section, send 'em to Alan. Those articles were only to get the ball rolling.
Yes, not all opinions are equal but everyone is entitled to express theirs either here and/or elsewhere.
People reading the opinions can make their own decisions for themselves on how much weight to put on the opinions they see.
That is the way it should be.
I think we need to go back to the motivation of Alan's post.
It is not that members in general don't want critique (maybe the odd one doesn't - but that isn't what this is about).
Many of our posted pics have the odd flaw. The intent, story - call it what you will - of the pic carries it and the flaw doesn't matter. Maybe the poster couldn't be bothered editing it or maybe he just doesn't care. Most of the time the flaw is nothing major. Even if it is, it doesn't matter - the intent of the post is the story in the pic.
Occasionally someone will comment on one of the posts and point it out or make a suggestion. It is never an issue for most posters on this site. Even if it is, we all just move on - no arguments, no ill feeling. The occasional comment is part of the general conversation of what we could call a healthy forum environment.
So what was the motivation for Alan's suggestion?
When someone continually passes critique in general forums people get frustrated. Especially when the critique is either obvious, or misses the point of the post. It kills positivity, leads to frustration, which leads to arguments and the site suffers. The environment becomes unhealthy.
Alan's suggestion is making an effort to put out all the fires caused by excessive critique in the general forums. His motivation is for the benefit of the site.
Unfortunately if it is taken literally the site also suffers. As stated, a small amount of critique is to be expected and benefits the site - stopping that is a step backwards. Unfortunately it also leaves the door open for comments like "it's a nanny site", "people can't handle honest criticism". Comments that are true of some sites that don't favour any critique. I don't think this site can be accused of that and will never go down that path.
What's the answer? Some form of restraint? "You have reached your critique limit for the month / week / day - any further critique will lead to action" Sounds childish. But that seems to be what we are dealing with.
I know the enforced holidays leave many of us in a relaxed mood for their duration. Maybe it would work...
I almost agree with you.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. No probs.
Everyone is not entitled to have their opinion expressed everywhere. "Entitled" are the rights extended by a group. It might be a small group such as this where the membership accepts the rights as decided by the owners. Or it may be a group such as a Church or political party that decides what opinions it is prepared to have members expressing and still belong to the group. And so on. "Entitlement" is whatever the group says it is.
"Critique" doesn't have to be negative. It is also seeing what is good in an image.
Most people here can cope with (and welcome) negative feedback. The problem is when the gain on the negative feedback loop is turned up too high...
Up to the point where that expression degrades from the general user experience. At that point, as Mike says, the group are within their rights to remove entitlements.
I think most often the problem is not the critique as such, but the way how it is expressed. Unfortunately this seems not be correctable :(
Of course you are right.
Yes on both points...
Anyone should be able to share their opinion, regardless of whether it is good, bad, or even offensive—critique is a part of that. If someone posts here, they must also be prepared for comments. We live in a world with full of different kind of people and countless personalities; this forum is no different. I often see useless comments, but honestly, who cares about them? Personally, I don’t. All I need is a threaded view and an ignore button, it will improve my user experience.
I second all. And, Yes, threaded view - ADMIN, I know you are busy and resolution is complex, but is there hope? Before year's end, next spring? We all appreciate your efforts and dedication to this site and will welcome future improvements . Thanks.
