The Cost of Seeing

I like visiting and photographing our architectural heritage amongst other things. I live in Italy and visiting most monuments costs about €5 for most monuments like the Roman city of Luni, or less when there is not much to see. The really world famous sites cost more; the Colosseum charges €16 and in some places like the "perfect city" of Sabbionetta costs €15 for seven sites visitable in the space of a Year. The same goes for Palazzo Te in Mantova. The Duomo and some other churches in Florence are the only religious sites that charge admission. Here it is an activity which is not expensive, which I have come to take for granted.

We have recently been on holiday in the UK and was surprised that it costs much more to visit most cultural sites in Britain. We were close to Kew gardens, near where I once lived and often spent a sunny Sunday afternoon, after paying the traditional 1 Pence fee. We just had a couple of hours, but it now costs £24 to go in. So we gave up on that idea. Next up Hampton court: £26,30 excluding donation! Next time. Chiswick house a second division monument is a reasonable £8,50.

We stayed in Battle before catching the shuttle back to France. this cost us £16 a head. OK the site has huge historical significance, but all there is to see is a field with some sheep and the ruined Monks living quarters. A €5 Italian monument.

The wonderful thing about the UK is that the art galleries and museums are still free. Unique in Europe I believe. Cathedrals are still reasonable. Wells and Bath Abbey ask for a £5 donation. So not all is negative in the UK.

Let's take a look at France and some places I have visited. Cathedrals and other religious monuments are free. The Castles on the Loire seem to cost about €15. The Popes palace in Avignon €12. The Pont du Gard is free but you pay €8 to park the car. The Roman arenas in Nimes and Arles come in at €10. A minor monument like the fascinating L’Abbaye troglodytique de Saint-Roman, near Avignon costs €5,75. The spectacular Les quatre châteaux de Lastours , near Carcassonne costs €8 So France sits in the middle between Italy and the UK.

Conclusion. I think France probable has the sensible pricing structure, compared to what you get to see. Italy is often very inexpensive outside of the "art cities" such as Rome and Florence, where they are learning to fleece the tourist. The UK is the winner if you like art gallery's, but English Heritage is mostly overpriced, unless you buy a years membership (£69) and make good use of it. Four or five monuments will repay the cost of membership. Kew Gardens in now hugely overpriced in my opinion.

Just some idle thoughts after a holiday.

No wonder so much of your work is beautiful. I wake up every day living in the land whose most famous photography quote to this photographer's knowledge is "Photograph how boring it is". I know this isn't precisely the same, but I'm just thinking about that €5 vs the cost to just get into Disneyland. What a bargain you have access to in Europe.

If you live in the UK and visit monuments a lot, National Trust and English Heritage seem to be the way to go as membership costs are reasonable compared to one off access.

I took a look at Versailles and it is expensive! The Trip Advisor reviews are pretty devastating too. But digging around it looks like the park is free to enter. Eugène Atget's pictures of the park have always fascinated me, so not all is lost. St Cloud another Atget location is free too.

Versailles and the Trip Advisor reviews lead us to another argument. Visiting the major world famous sites has become an unpleasant stressful experience, due to the huge overcrowding as well as becoming expensive. Back in the late sixties as a child, we stopped off at Stonehenge. There was a small layby and you paid a small sum to a guy in a small wooden shed. We were alone and wandered freely amongst the stones. At some point Stonehenge became a mass tourism destination with a shiny visitor centre and an eyewatering £26 admission fee. Visit Avebury instead! Italy is not innocent in this price gouging. My Florentine father in law was baptised in the Baptistry in Florence. In the not too distant past it was used for its intended purpose. We visited in the late eighties and you just wandered in for free. Visiting Florence was a magical experience. Now you pay, and Florence in the summer is now horribly overcrowded.

And you havent even mentioned Venice -- La serenissima!

David

Actually the Basilica di San Marco charges just €3 against £16 for Canterbury. Surprisingly cheap even with the add on charges.

"You can visit St Mark Basilica from 9.30am (Sunday and Solemnities ‘of precept’ from 2pm) to 5.15pm (last admission: 4.45pm; ticket: 3 €; free for children up to 6 years of age), with the possibility to see also the Pala d’Oro (supplement: 5 €; free for children up to 6 years of age) and the Museum – Loggia dei Cavalli (supplement: 7 €; free for children up to 6 years of age)."

It is the restaurants and cafes in the crowded center of Venice that are disgustingly bad and overpriced. But I quess like Florence, if you move just a little out of the overcrowded center you will find much better value.

If it's horribly overcrowded, then the admission fee is way too low.

Another way to tackle that problem: limit access at a fixed (low) number, and e.g. let a lottery / sweepstake decide who gets in.

When admission is free, somebody else will have to pay for the maintenance cost.

Many places now get you to book a slot to avoid overcrowding.

Access to our cultural heritage should be accessible to everybody, and not just to the wealthy.

It was the curse of social media and glossy travel journalism that changed the Cinque Terre from a quiet set of fishing villages with a few local tourists, into the hell on earth it is today.

My thoughts exactly. I'm also glad certain places avoid cruise ships from dumping thousands of tourists all at once.
www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56592109
Some places become paralyzed from them...

Nope, you're beating the wrong horse.

Today people have more spare time for travelling than they used to have hundred years ago, and they have faster means of transportation, i.e. they can travel more often to more distant destinations.

Why should should non-local tourists be specifically locked out of Cinque Terre?

You are visiting several foreign countries yourself as a tourist, and really do complain that there are way too many other people who just do what you do?
You know the definition of a hypocrite?

I just love rude replies. They say more about the poster than me. You have not even understood what I wrote.

Sure more people travel, that is pretty obvious.

I am not proposing to lock anybody out of anywhere. Let me spell it out for you. Certain places become overcrowded because of social media and traditional media coverage. That is how it is. I know a second "Cinque Terre" that has escaped the attention of the various types of "influencer". Indeed the Italian travel industry is trying hard to spread tourist traffic more widely.

Actually when I travel I actively try and seek out places that are off the mass tourist radar. It is quite easy to do. Here in Italy, where I live, I have found some wonderful places off the beaten track, and the nice thing is that the locals are actually pleased to see sombody taking an interest in their local attractions. If I want to visit some famous place, I choose my timing carefully. Maybe ask the Venetians what they think of mass tourism. It is killing the city. This is a statement of fact.

A description of a situation has nothing to do with hypocrisy. This thread is all about how organisations such as English Heritage and the National trust, are charging ridiculous entry prices to enter their monuments, not even justified by visitor numbers.

[deleted]

Cruise ships bring nothing to the local economy, maybe the souvenir shops might sell some trinkets, but the hospitality sector do not benefit.

But Italian shipyards are in stiff competition to build these monsters, so the Italian Government has to be careful not to upset the cruise ship owners.

[deleted]

I just asked you some questions.
You think that's rude?

It's because people like to communicate, and like to spread information. Not because of the medium they use for that.

Good for you.

If you'd tell us more about that second location, the first "Cinque Terre" might get less overcrowded.

People have a limited time budget for travel, and they simply can't be at more than one place at the same time.

So you're not part of a solution to the problem you described.

Calling sombody a hypocrite for no good reason seem to fall into the category of being rude, I believe.

Overcrowding is a problem for the people who live in these places that get overcrowded, as well as for the visitor. In Italy at least, the masses go to the same five or six places that for some reason are deemed "unmissable": Venice, Florence, Rome, Tower of Pisa and the Cinque Terre. Why do so few go to Mantova, Lucca or Parma? How is it that I can visit the Romanesque masterpiece cathedrals of Fidenza, Brescia and Piacenza and be the only visitor?

No, I believe I am part of the solution. I try to dig out interesting places that few know about. It takes effort and a bit of original research. I have specific things I am interested in such as Romanesque architecture. Maybe the solution is that we do not have to travel to another continent to see interesting stuff. Maybe go to places you really are interested in, and not some place some journalist or influencer has told you that you "must see".

Why do so few visitors go to the incredible prehistoric rock carvings in the Italian Lakes area at Capo di Ponte?

I think the prices in the UK have skyrocketed due to Covid and Brexit, so a lot of people in the UK were more or less forced to visit UK sites and overcrowded them, leading to damage and the need for more guards and maintenance people to keep the sites in a safe condition.

Skye is a mess nowadays as it is totally overfilled with Brits of every kind and size. There have even been talks about restarting the bride toll fee to keep people off the island.

Ahh, Prosciutto di Parma and Formaggio Parmigiano Reggiano! 😋
Luckily, many shops sell these, in the town where I live.
So I don't have to travel to Parma. 😉

Visited Stonehenge in the late eighties. Payed my entrance fee. Not that many people there at that time, but I remember a shop in the entrance building where they sold memorabilia and other trinkets.
Went to Avebury, Durrington, Uffington, and a couple of other places on that same weekend. Don't think I've noticed many tourists there, local or not.
Glad that today so much more people can enjoy the sight of these sites.

I guess it is a question of PR and advertising. In June 2018 I visited Padova and Lucca and there were very few tourists. I am sure the situation is still the same, as you suggest. Lucca is an amazing walled city, the birthplace of Puccini, Geminiani, Catalani and Boccherini, and other famous people in other walkes of life There is much to see there.

Giacomo Puccini by night

But let us keep the secret, and profit from it!

David

I am due for another trip to Lucca. I want to add some things and places to my Romanesque project.

You can add Pistoia to the list, I was there for work. Had an super lunch in the market square. It also has some interesting monuments. I was in Pontremoli last year and had the amazing museum of the "Stele", all to myself.

If you like hiking. You can walk for hours in the high Tosco Emilian Apennines and not meet a soul.

I have visited lovely places in Germany and Austria, similar unknown to the masses. The longest castle in Europe in Bavaria comes to mind.

I agree, UK heritage is much more expensive than elswhere in europe. My more recent experiences have been from Greece, where the Athens archaeological museum comes in at 12 euro, (6 in winter), as does the site and museum at Mycenae. Many smaller sites are 3-6 euros. There are often lower prices for EU senior citizens, which we no longer qualify for just as I got old enough to benifit... but lets not go there... The Alhambra palace in Spain is under 20 euros. The most recent place I've visited in th UK was Fountains Abbey (National Trust, £18 without donation)
The counter to this is overcrowding, which makes the whole experience less pleasurable for everyone. I count myself lucky to be able to choose to visit at less busy times of year/day. A booking system with limited numbers would seem to be the best option for the 'must see' sites, allowing everyone equal chance. This seems to work for the Alhambra. Pricing people out seems wrong, wherever they come from.
It all comes down to 'Who pays?' Who pays for the upkeep of these places. As far as I can make out, in Greece it is a state department, so the taxpayer pays. In UK, our governments over the years have pushed culture and heritage further and further down the pecking order.
I've toyed with joining the National Trust, but don't like some of their policies and attitudes, including on photography. Now having moved to Scotland, I will probably join the National Trust For Scotland - cheaper and with full access to Nat. Trust properties all over UK.

I believe in most if not all of Europe , monuments are in the care of a Government department ( in Italy Min. Beni Culturali),the local town council like my my favourite Sabbionetta, or the Church for Cathedrals.

It is instructive to take a look at the management structure of English Heritage, and I suppose the NT is much the same. Nominally set up as a charity, it is run as business with a marketing department, a responsible for "delivery of commercial targets" as well as the inevitable "equality, diversity and inclusion" department. The trustees are the usual Quango, CBE, worthies. This is why visiting monuments in the UK is more expensive than most places in Europe in my opinion.

The NT policy on photography it seems is unfortunately the same as for Italy and France. Photography for personal use only. The terror of sombody making a few bob by selling a picture.

I was lucky enough to visit Florence during "Covid" with zero crowding. A one off opportunity I hope.

"Entry ticket price for monuments in India are at least 10 times more for foreign tourists compared to Indians, reveals an analysis of ticket prices for some of the popular monuments."
theprint.in/india/governance/ticket-prices-at-monuments-should-be-same-for-foreigners-indians-niti-aayog-tells-govt/167103/

When I travelled through India many years back [and I've been several times] I found the price structuring puzzling. Foreigner's were being gouged for entry. If you brought along a camera, you were charged even more, with another price for video.