The Difficulty in Explaining Equivalence

are you not capable to adjust WB 🤨 , if not make a new thread asking for help.

I doubt anyone doubts you can adjust WB.

But just because you are able to adjust WB does not mean the images you posted are not dodgy. They might or might not have been.

As I said, you are asking people to just take your word for it. Some will and some won't.

Maybe the moderator at DPR had good reason to delete your post because we're hearing only your side of the story here.

Yes, you're right. He is not going to back down/ From the tone of the responses, he is quite sure that he is right! I've sent him one more message using GB's example scenario. No response yet but I think I'm done with it.

There's already a meaning "of "MF" in common usage: Medium Format. Why do you add confusion by referring to what is called "m43" or "MFT" (which almost everyone understands) as "MF"? You're the "A ninety-three" guy too, aren't you? Saving one character is really efficient, isn't it?

My own recent experiments shooting up close (like at 1:1 magnification or more) revealed something to me: There's no DOF difference at all when using the same f-number on different formats to produce an image with the same framing, the same noise, etc. That's a surprise at first because we habitually discuss equivalence in terms of focal length and f-number. But those terms get slippery at focus distances other than infinity, so to cover all the circumstances we should probably be using terms like magnification and 'apparent' f-number. Even the term '1:1 magnification' gets slippery when comparing formats. If the larger sensor format is shooting a tiny object at 1:1 magnification in-camera, the smaller sensor format will capture the same image at the same f-number and at less than 1:1 magnification in-camera.

An all too common tactic that gets boring/annoying really, really fast.

In the past, I didn't engage people who I considered "willfully ignorant" via PM. I would always tell them to start a thread on the matter, preferably in the Photographic Science and Technology forum, but, with only a single exception, they refused. They don't want what they're saying to be in public, for obvious reasons.

Honestly, I'd be pretty chill, like this site. So long as the willfully ignorant were not abusive, I'd let them have their say, especially as I'm quite the fan of watching people punch themselves in the face, with their backers cheering them on, "You got'em, man! Keep blocking those fists with your face -- he's getting tired!" 😁

That said, I never had interest in being a moderator (pretend, for the briefest of moments, that an offer would ever be extended). It's a conflict of interest, as I'm a player. It would be like having someone from one of the teams playing ref a game. No matter how honest they are, there's an obvious conflict of interest.

I would like to say that DPR should have a rule that a moderator cannot moderate a thread they participate in, but the moderators would likely share a "code", like police, and act as a gang. The only way to make that work is if the identity of the moderators was made known only to the admins and forum software randomly assigned them threads to moderate and blocked them from posting in said threads. Of course, even that isn't perfect, but a lot better than how things work over there.

At the very least, mods need to be held accountable for their moderation, just as police need to be held accountable for their actions, but, as we all know, the admins don't care, and even if such a system were implemented, it would be, "We've investigated our own and found no wrong doing." Maybe the occasional sacrificial lamb to give the illusion of something being done to the masses, but that would be about it. Might seem strange to people who are not native to Earth, though. 😉

If he's still posting puzzles, has anything really been fixed?

Moderators have been held accountable by Admin where on some occasions banned members have been reinstated after Admin were asked to review the ban.

Again, we are hearing only one side of the story when "refugees" from DPR come here licking their wounds and looking for sympathy while whinging about the way they were treated over there.

I think some of the moderators over there are laughing at the whinging I see over here.

i will test using 10:1 microscope objectives using very acurate system and tell you the results between apsc and FF.

posting images is more efficient at teaching/ showing effects than maths and nunbers 😁 you only need the intellegents to watch a utube on how to fix your car. but if you like you can post in numbers the equivalent of your teaching methods 🫣 will wil keep the task simple ,how do i take the tire cap off the stem.🤨

im sorry that a photograph is a puzzle you havnt figured out yet. your not alone. photographers are still second guessing themselves with maths 🫣😎

I have read your posts about your interactions on DPR. The debate should be out in the open, otherwise it is just two people talking past each other. But then that is a sure way to get banned or sandboxed where you were posting. I just cant be bothered to argue on DPR anymore, about anything.

Now, I believe personally, that the theoretical basis of the "Equivalence" question is correct. But when we throw into the ring, different cameras with different sensor technology, some recent and some old, and we add into the equation different lenses with different resolving power and such, the water starts to become muddy and the precise differences between formats, become less accurate to a greater or lesser degree. It is up to us as individuals to decide the usefulness of this concept.

This article by the rather arrogant Ctein has some good points in the comment section, from both sides of the argument.

There are other areas of ignorance in our little world of photography, that I find more annoying.

That's like saying, "Police have been held accountable by the courts when innocent people have been released from prison."

Absolutely. However, I dare you to find a post of mine in this thread where I deserved being sandboxed, keeping in mind that none of my posts were deleted. I would especially like to to compare and contrast my posts vs Tom Caldwell's and jalywol's posts with regards to forum rules. I also dare you to explain why this thread was moved from the Canon R forum when the mod knows I shoot Canon. Lastly, I dare you to explain why the admins did not respond or act on my complaint. I'm being serious, here -- if you can side with the mods/admins over this, I'd really like to hear it.

For reference, if I posted the same thing that Tom Caldwell posted:

www.dpreview.com/forums/post/67547854

I don't set myself up as an expert but am willing to accept the theory of equivalence despite asides that I and others denying it...If you cannot directly answer my direct question and keep spouting your accusations of equivalence denier from your podium I will consider you a trouble maker on this forum and act accordingly.

If I posted a similar challenge followed with a similar threat, what do you think would happen? If I had replied with, "Why? What's the point?" as jalywol did to a much friendlier question that I posed her, what do you think would have happened?

The above is but one example of gross hypocrisy and lack of accountability of moderation on DPR -- I can link to many more.

Assuming they read the posts here, absolutely. In the same way that Putin loves to hear all the people moaning about Navalny's "untimely" death. What's your point?

The fact of the matter is, mods, like police, are not held accountable for their actions, and the reason for this is simply that the admins do not care. The mods' primary purpose for them is to block commercial spam and shield them from anything that might make them legally culpable. Aside from that, they can run their fiefdoms as they see fit. Mind you, I'm not saying all mods are bad, just as I don't think all cops are bad. I'm merely saying that there is no system that holds them accountable for their actions.

Now, if you don't mind, there's a humanitarian food truck convoy heading out, and I need to get my drones loaded with US missiles paid for by US taxpayers so I can remove the threat (thank goodness I'm not held accountable, either!). 😜

admins dont care as its a sales site( they promote what the admins are doing). the more the admins control the comparrisions the better the sales amounst brand Enthusiasm. if there was no brand loyalty and we were all honest with ourselves we would be all shooting Sony 😁🫣

DPR is a commercial enterprise. They set the rules, and they chose to allow some bullies in amongst the moderating team. The DPR forums are sinking into a swamp of mediocrity, hardy a tragedy when some little asshole on a power trip decides that they do not want my participation.