What do you think a beginner is?

One of the strengths of square format is that is compacts the image. You can't help but look at the whole frame, it's in your face. One of the weaknesses of 3:2 is the short edges are a long way from the centre of the frame. When lining up the shot it's quite easy to concentrate on the middle and forget about stuff on the edges - they are kind of peripheral vision for many people.

We are talking specifically about what defines a “beginner’ ….. so…. Your advice to a beginner on composition would be what? Do whatever you wish? You would give them no place to start about framing images? Seriously, someone who comes to you with a camera, a lens, and a desire to make better pictures ….. you would tell them what, exactly? You would immediately start to talk f-stops, focal length, exposure, iso, signal to noise ratios?

As I said above: "When I've taught composition -- infrequently and a long time ago -- I stressed looking at the image: look at the edges, look at the forms, sketch them, turn the picture upside down, squint at it, etc. People who are new to composition tend to look through the photograph, rather than at the photograph."

I think it's about giving people the tools to make compositions that are pleasing to them, and to be able to use those tools throughout their photographic journey. It's been a while since I turned a picture of mine upside down, but I'm sure I've done it within the last year. And I always look at the shapes and edges.

Ok, so an absolute beginner who wants to make “better photos” you are are going to tell them to “look at the edges, the forms, …. Turn it upside down And squint at it”….. you will give them no place to start other than that? You will give them no foundation other than that? It’s all up to them to “squint” until they find something that their Squint says is great?

Seems like “squinting” might be for a more advanced photographer trying to learn how break out of formulaic, basic , beginner , compositions, no?

Now you're just making fun. It goes more like: Look at this image. Does it please you? Tell me why. Do that for several other images, some of which have problems. Then see if the neophyte can find the problems. Give them tools to examine the images that might help with that. Then have them bring in some of their own images. Do the same. Try to help them find how to make images that they like better.

My advice would be to concentrate very hard on making your composition simple. Get close, exclude, exclude, exclude. Look all around the frame, exclude secondary subjects, tree branches sticking into the frame, elbows, that kind of thing.

If you can do that, instantly your compositions start to look intended rather than haphazard snaps. More fancy composition can come after you've had practice excluding things.

And don't use ultra wides, they are a nightmare unless you know what you are doing. All sorts of stuff (including your own feet) can creep into the frame, along with weird distortions unless you keep the camera very level. Start with more generalist focal lengths, one less thing to worry about.

And practice. Gary Player: “The harder I practice, the luckier I get”

Actually, I’m not “making fun’. I’m just asking based on what you typed.

The thread here was about how each of us define a beginner. You didn’t actually answer that. Instead, you choose to suggest that LR and its cropping tool have ruined images. Then you went on to say that beginners should turn their images upside down and squint at them instead of using a simple formulaic “rule of thirds”……. as a beginner.

Ok, fine,

Now, instead of commenting on my answer, do you care to actually contribute to the OP’s question: “what do you think a beginner is”?

An absolute beginner is someone who has never seen a photograph, or made one. There aren't very many of those. I'm thinking more of someone who has made photographs with phones and P&S cameras who has decided that they want to get better at photography. They can probably get a lot better at photography without changing their cameras.

Perfect. Thank you. Right on topic. You have defined who you think a beginner is without making comments that take the OP’s question off topic.

Thread drift is common and expected on these forums. I enjoy it.

i hope you super glued the iso dial so he doesn't learn any bad habits 😁

If you don't understand what ISO dial does, why not to re-read the explanations you were given?

A corollary of my view of what is the definition of a beginner is that the best next steps have to do with composition, lighting, framing, timing, group interaction, etc, not f-stops, DOF, ISO, noise, etc. All that can come after learning to make good pictures with your iPhone.

But that's not what people want to hear. People used to come to me in the film era and say they wanted to learn photography. I told them to get a Polaroid camera. They didn't want to hear that, either.

That's going to depend on the kind of photography they like to do and on the kinds of photos they've already made.

I believe most folks who are drawn to photography have an innate desire to be a visual storyteller. They've probably seen photos by other photographers that have moved them, inspired them. They've almost certainly been using their smartphone camera to do photography. They've at least developed an idea or three - from the other photos they've seen, movies, YouTube, etc. - about how to compose a shot. That's going to be reflected in the photography they've already done.

I'd like to see at least a couple of examples of photos they've made. There's going to be something positive in them; something that can be built upon. It may they're appreciation of good light, compositional instincts. a sense of the decisive moment, or other qualities. I would point those out and call attention to qualities they may not even be aware of as being good.

Then it's time to look for the low-hanging fruit, the most obvious things they could try that would improve their photos. One of the recommendations I like to make, regardless of the genre they enjoy, is to seek out the B&H YouTube channel and look for their "Event Space" playlist. That is filled with presentations by some really talented photographers who work in a wide variety of genres. Just about anybody can find a photographer in the "Event Space" whose work they like and whose presentations they find inspiring.

It's a free mentoring program. Take advantage of it. It's basically a free series of workshops taught by some truly outstanding artists.

alternative fact 😁